LS/VTEC!!!! the one engine i respect, yet hate

[chingro]

this engine is the only honda engine i actually build and even though it wasn;t the fastest i did, i realized the potential it had and from there on, i kept on building them (i built about 10 so far, 3 being mines), one in my teg, one in my civic, one i end up selling...

let me see how much out there has cross the path of the LS/VTEC and what u think.....even if u just raced against one.......

[Wrecked-=HS Engineering=-]

What's the age of the oldest one still running?

I ask because in another thread someone had said these engines don't tend to last very long.

[Dellas]

I've read that a stock LS bottom with a stock 1600 VTEC head dynoed 185HP at the wheels.... With this combination you end up with more cc than the 1800 Integras even the type-R. This produces more torque and power throughout the entire RPM range. The combination gave a 10:1 compression ratio but I'm finding the horsepower claim hard to believe from that CR ratio..........  

[Green Meanie]

Ran one.  I beat it.  But it was a good race.

From a reliability and longevity standpoint I don't like it.

The common misconception is that you can just get the block vtec head and make a few minor mods and voila....instant monster Honda motor.  This is simply not the case.  It takes a lot of money.  

To me it makes more sense to take a B18C block and put some 84mm pistons and sleeves in it.  

[chingro]

the LS block has a low C/R therefore, you cant rev above 8000, BUT, with some ITR or CTR pistons u wouldn;t neet to rev that high to beat a type R with a chipped ECU.........

there are a thousand didfferent combination to build this motor, when it comes to pistons, heads, and cams, and block chioces (B20/B18A/B18B).....

a LS/VTEC with a stock B18a/b block is SLOW!!!!
it will only produce 169HP......(i dyno one of mines)
so beating an LS/VTEC is no biggie......u need to come across a well built one.....

well my last one is about 7 months old....and it still runs strong as the day i built it............just take good care of it and it will take good care of u......

[missaFleemos]

the LS block has a low C/R therefore, you cant rev above 8000, BUT, with some ITR or CTR pistons u wouldn;t neet to rev that high to beat a type R with a chipped ECU.........

there are a thousand didfferent combination to build this motor, when it comes to pistons, heads, and cams, and block chioces (B20/B18A/B18B).....

a LS/VTEC with a stock B18a/b block is SLOW!!!!
it will only produce 169HP......(i dyno one of mines)
so beating an LS/VTEC is no biggie......u need to come across a well built one.....

well my last one is about 7 months old....and it still runs strong as the day i built it............just take good care of it and it will take good care of u......

If c/r means compression ratio I have to disagree with the statement that because it has a low compression ratio it cannot rev high. Compression ratio has nothing to do with how high a car can rev. The thing that limits reliable high revs with  the ls block is the fact that it has a longer stroke and so pistons speeds will be faster than the b18c block, as well as the absence of oil squirters, poor rod/stroke ratio and less block reinforcement.

[dadz]

a LS/VTEC with a stock B18a/b block is SLOW!!!!
it will only produce 169HP

Just curious... did you use the B18a/b gearbox on this engine? The gearing in the B16ax/18cx tranny provides much better performance.

In addition to this, 170hp N/A is not to be taken lightly, especially against another N/A car of similar displacement

[ÇívicBwoÿ]

What's the age of the oldest one still running?

I ask because in another thread someone had said these engines don't tend to last very long.

it all depends on how you drive,..

i had a LS vtec and it ran preety good.
untill i blown the engine block,...
but that was totally my fault as i rev the engine passed 8500 rpm

[Jozzy]

it all depends on how you drive,..

i had a LS vtec and it ran preety good.
untill i blown the engine block,...
but that was totally my fault as i rev the engine passed 8500 rpm

so u r saying that ur car dont have a rev limiter, or all of these cars donr have rev limiters

or did u take it out, if u did why??

[Puffy]

What's the age of the oldest one still running?

I ask because in another thread someone had said these engines don't tend to last very long.

Yeah I heard the same thing, especially if you put it under boost or inject it with happy gas.  Turboing it is especially a problem if you dont install a block guard PROPERLY.

[ÇívicBwoÿ]

it all depends on how you drive,..

i had a LS vtec and it ran preety good.
untill i blown the engine block,...
but that was totally my fault as i rev the engine passed 8500 rpm

so u r saying that ur car dont have a rev limiter, or all of these cars donr have rev limiters

or did u take it out, if u did why??

the ecu was chipped to rev pass 9000 rpm but the engine wasnt built to rev that high

[Facious]

it all depends on how you drive,..

i had a LS vtec and it ran preety good.
 untill i blown the engine block,...
but that was totally my fault as i rev the engine passed 8500 rpm

so u r saying that ur car dont have a rev limiter, or all of these cars donr have rev limiters

or did u take it out, if u did why??

the ecu was chipped to rev pass 9000 rpm but the engine wasnt built to rev that high

why would someone chip a ecu to rev pass 9000 when the engine wasn't build to pass 8500

[Nissan]

this engine is the only honda engine i actually build and even though it wasn;t the fastest i did, i realized the potential it had and from there on, i kept on building them (i built about 10 so far, 3 being mines), one in my teg, one in my civic, one i end up selling...

let me see how much out there has cross the path of the LS/VTEC and what u think.....even if u just raced against one.......

You haven't stated why you hate it

[andre2die4]

people hate LS/Vtec because all they do is find a LS block and throw a Vtec head on it and expect to rev it up to 9000RPM and get 200hp but thats not the case. You need to replace the rods since the stock ones are good for only 7000RPM. For the pistons you can use the stock ls pistons but whats the point... its low compression yes but it can still rev just as high as a N/A piston. The reason I'd replace them is because you already have the block apart besides i'm sure you want to hear that loud Vtec change-over/engagement. You can here it with the ls pistons but not a s loud because it low compression; higher cr ratio engines have a louder engagement plus i'm sure you want your competition to hear those valves opening.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=51AF4B25-4509-4B0F-AA43-7002AC77626C&p=10

[Doose_2.0GT Spec B]

The reason I'd replace them is because you already have the block apart besides i'm sure you want to hear that loud Vtec change-over/engagement. You can here it with the ls pistons but not a s loud because it low compression; higher cr ratio engines have a louder engagement plus i'm sure you want your competition to hear those valves opening.

Not everyone pulls the block apart when doing these setups...

Anyway according to you I have a question....Why does V-Tec sound louder with higher compression?

[andre2die4]

If you are not going to pull the block apart then what is the point of the conversion? You need a vtec oil pump, timing belt KIT, and rods to rev past the stock 7k RPM SAFELY.

[Griever]

 
 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ls/vtec - poor mans type-r. 190hp / 130 torque
gsr - 170hp / 117 torque (i think) 

[Doose_2.0GT Spec B]

If you are not going to pull the block apart then what is the point of the conversion? You need a vtec oil pump, timing belt KIT, and rods to rev past the stock 7k RPM SAFELY.

No andre2die say he pulls the block apart...but I said not everyone does that........Its not common knowledge if you dont do the proper research when donig these setups...is not everyone who sit exam pass.

Any way my question is still unanswered......................Why does V-Tec sound louder with higher compression?

[THOR]

If you are not going to pull the block apart then what is the point of the conversion? You need a vtec oil pump, timing belt KIT, and rods to rev past the stock 7k RPM SAFELY.

No andre2die say he pulls the block apart...but I said not everyone does that........Its not common knowledge if you dont do the proper research when donig these setups...is not everyone who sit exam pass.

Any way my question is still unanswered......................Why does V-Tec sound louder with higher compression?

well the first thing is that u cant hear v-tec u only hear when it engage ....but seriously the noise i think is because the higher the cr the bigger the explosion in the cylinder, and when this happens the noise is more and since the valves r opened more then the noise comes out higher in decibell

[Don Gotti]

question, when u doin the Ls conversion to a b18a engine, apart from the head, what elso would hav to be changed? do u hav to change the ecu, tanny or wire loom?

[andre|paul]

Just to clarify Don Gotti, an LS is the same thing as a B18A/B. When doing the LS/VTEC there are a few things to do, one of the main thing is to tap the VTEC oil supply hole in the head and block it and then reroute an oil sending unit to some other part of the head. There are other ways to do an LS/VTEC also, using a LS crank in a B16 is essentially an LS/VTEC.

I've done two LS/VTECs, and one B20VTEC. The first one was somewhat of an experimental thing and it ran strong but saw where it could be a whole lot better. The second LS/VTEC was put on boost and it was a real monster. . .its still around. The B20VTEC is still around too, its my daily driver. . .has about 10xxx miles on it now, with problem in one cylinder now.

These motors are really strong, I don't see anything I really hate about them, if done right.

And LS/VTEC is not whats called a "poor man's Type R". . .that is a B18C1/B16A combo.

[Don Gotti]

o respec Rudebwaisi for the info...to tell u the truth a actually waiting on a uncle that sellin me a 91 integra acura, with the b18a engine. the model is the GS so i thought LS was the vtech version  my bad. so to do the conversion apart from rerouting the oil, wat else is there? and how the b20vtech perform compared to ur lsvtech?

[andre|paul]

Well the B20VTEC was is partially built (internals) and the LSVTEC was not so naturally the B20VTEC would blow it away. But the LSVTEC on boost, was also partially built, with full port n polish job and forged pistons, its spiked up to 21psi and was just no ordinary car. . .it would lose traction (chip/chirp tyres) all the way to 5th gear on drag radials.

[Don Gotti]

is a mad machine u hav  wen/ if it get the car, u will hav some competition 


o but u still neva answer me, wat parts i would hav to change to convert to vtech?

[andre|paul]

If you already have like a B16, or GSR or ITR, it'll already have VTEC. If the car you putting it in is non-VTEC, you have to do some work to the wiring harness to get VTEC working. And you also have to use an ECU that has VTEC capabilities.

[CONTRABAND]

I have been running my LS vtec for months now.......nearly a year and its still strong as hell.The modifications are coming surely.I should be getting some Skunk 2 cams for this setup so i,m currently looking at a ride which will be putting out more.I,m convinced that this application(LS) can serve a while if u maintain it properly.

Big up LIKKLE "T"---

[®. $. $P!KE]

So . . . B18C1 (C5 if God blessed you ) and B20Z.

Isn't this the best or one of the best combos, whether NA or boosted (plz answer with consideration for internal mods)

[andre|paul]

Best B-series combo if you keeping it NA is the B20B/Z with a B16B or B18C/5 not the GSR head (B18C1). For boosting, you really don't need a combo, straight LS on boost is better IMO. . .VTEC isn't a concern if you boosting.

[®. $. $P!KE]

what do you mean it's not a concern? What if you want to retain VTEC?

[andre|paul]

Meaning having VTEC on a boosted motor has no real benefit over one of same displacement with VTEC. It is easier to tune a non-VTEC motor on boost and easier to get a smoother curve.

[®. $. $P!KE]

oh zeen . . .thanks for the help

[Don Gotti]

Best B-series combo if you keeping it NA is the B20B/Z with a B16B or B18C/5 not the GSR head (B18C1). For boosting, you really don't need a combo, straight LS on boost is better IMO. . .VTEC isn't a concern if you boosting.

wats better, ls bottom wid b16 head or b18? i hear there the b16 can rev higher than the 18 

[andre|paul]

By B18 I am assuming you mean B18C or C1. Well if its B18C (Type R) then that is better than the B16. The VTEC head that is capable of taking revs the most is the Type R. The B16 does not necessarily revs higher than the GSR or SiR, the valvetrain in the VTEC heads are all the same basically except for the Type R.

I normally recommend the B16 head because of the intake manifold is better but now that Skunk2, Blox, AEBS etc makes manifold for the GSR, thats hardly an issue anymore. The GSR head will yield more compression over the B16 also.

[Don Gotti]

ok, yea i heard i about the issue with the intake mani so i get wat u sayin. well b18c head then is the way to go if available. question, can a b16 intake mani work on the b18 engine? y would u recomend b16 head though on a whole?

[andre|paul]

B16 intake manifold will not work on the B18B or B18C1. It'll work on the Type R however. Only reason I would go B16 over B18C1 is for the manifold; otherwise, GSR is good because of the lower combustion chamber, it offers more compression than the B16.

[P_dizzle]

Rudebwaisi mi nah lie............
u know u info
so u do engine buildups?

[andre|paul]

Rudebwaisi mi nah lie............
u know u info
so u do engine buildups?

Yeah I did the one in my car (B20VTEC). . .with help from two friends. A lot of what I know I read on forums just like this one, they can be very helpful.

[Coupe]

Rudebwaisi mi nah lie............
u know u info
so u do engine buildups?

Yeah I did the one in my car (B20VTEC). . .with help from two friends. A lot of what I know I read on forums just like this one, they can be very helpful.

so rudebwisi
if u have a gsr engine and u wanna do a mod
wat would u do
get a ls crank and knife it in there
or
get a b20 bottom end and put on.
aim is to go fast as possible in a str8 line

bless

[andre|paul]

The LS crank in the GSR could work, but the B20 would net you more torque and more power eventually considering the mods are same, cause the B20 has a little more displacement. But the GSR would be able to withstand higher revs. Though I have seen stock B20s revving to 9000rpm, but some people are just lucky or really know what they doing.

[Coupe]

The LS crank in the GSR could work, but the B20 would net you more torque and more power eventually considering the mods are same, cause the B20 has a little more displacement. But the GSR would be able to withstand higher revs. Though I have seen stock B20s revving to 9000rpm, but some people are just lucky or really know what they doing.

ohkool suh ls crank is a good mod then
like di soun a dat
 goin shopping 

[TODA]

Best B-series combo if you keeping it NA is the B20B/Z with a B16B or B18C/5 not the GSR head (B18C1). For boosting, you really don't need a combo, straight LS on boost is better IMO. . .VTEC isn't a concern if you boosting.

is'nt the B16B and the B18C5 head the same except for the cams?

[andre|paul]

Yeah intake cam to be exact. But the cams are the same on both ITR and CTR after year 2000.

[LS/V-TEC]

If you are not going to pull the block apart then what is the point of the conversion? You need a vtec oil pump, timing belt KIT, and rods to rev past the stock 7k RPM SAFELY.

No andre2die say he pulls the block apart...but I said not everyone does that........Its not common knowledge if you dont do the proper research when donig these setups...is not everyone who sit exam pass.

Any way my question is still unanswered......................Why does V-Tec sound louder with higher compression?

Whaapen Mr Dyce?? Long time we nuh buck, anyways I haven't been on wheels in a LOOOOOOONG time and after looking through, I thought this was the most appropriate thread to join as the ls/v-tec is my FAVORITE weapon of choice. I have built many ls/v-tec motors and NONE have failed me yet. If you do not have sufficient knowledge yourself, GET PROFESSIONAL HELP!! If not you may be embarrased. Alot of people as persons said earlier think they get an ls bottom, and a v-tech, and presto a godzilla engine is born!!! Hell no!! People also say they cant rev past 7,000, 8,000 etc RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If you are not going to respect the motor it will fail you. My best production to date was built with STOCK ls rods, oem ctr pistons, and everything thats nice in the head, along with an excellent exhaust system and of course good tuning. Bottom line was 218 whp, and 148 fpt. Thats alot more than most b20 v/t-ec's out there too.  All work and tuning was done by the mad man himself. I  drove that motor with no mercy. Redline was 9,200. And like I said I have done more than 1 engine, and none have ever failed. And whoever said that an ls/v-tec is a poor mans type r, is an ignoramous. It is FAR MORE EXPENSIVE to build one than to just buy a type R motor. Thats my 2 cents, will follow up this thread still. LS out.

[andre|paul]

My best production to date was built with STOCK ls rods, oem ctr pistons, and everything thats nice in the head, along with an excellent exhaust system and of course good tuning. Bottom line was 118 whp, and 148 fpt. Thats alot more than most b20 v/t-ec's out there too. 

118whp is really nothing to boast about. Many Toyotas and Nissans can get to that. 

[LS/V-TEC]

My best production to date was built with STOCK ls rods, oem ctr pistons, and everything thats nice in the head, along with an excellent exhaust system and of course good tuning. Bottom line was 118 whp, and 148 fpt. Thats alot more than most b20 v/t-ec's out there too. 

118whp is really nothing to boast about. Many Toyotas and Nissans can get to that. 

OOOOPS, big time OOOOOOOPS  I meant 218whp, and 148fpt. Thanks for the heads up

[Don Gotti]

suh u sayin its best that i buy a ITR engine rather than do this conversion seeing that it cost more to do the l/s conversion? is this conversion u yourself does, or u have a mechanic that does it. as rude bwasi says, in order to do the conversion there are certain things that will hav to change. the oil pump, the the vtech head, i goin to need a ODB1 computer flashed. is there ne thing else?

[LS/V-TEC]

If you just want your ride to run better than a b16 or b18c motor then yes, an R motor is fine, if you want to keep up with the BIG boys then the ls, or b20 is the way to go. Also another factor is bottom line, how much you plan to spend.

[Don Gotti]

If you just want your ride to run better than a b16 or b18c motor then yes, an R motor is fine, if you want to keep up with the BIG boys then the ls, or b20 is the way to go. Also another factor is bottom line, how much you plan to spend.

o ok, well i would be doin this conversion soon ls/tech that is. and yea i want to keep up with the big boys. money gwen haffi spend, i dont really hav a set amount currently that i am goin to spend.

[Djstain]

If you just want your ride to run better than a b16 or b18c motor then yes, an R motor is fine, if you want to keep up with the BIG boys then the ls, or b20 is the way to go. Also another factor is bottom line, how much you plan to spend.

o ok, well i would be doin this conversion soon ls/tech that is. and yea i want to keep up with the big boys. money gwen haffi spend, i dont really hav a set amount currently that i am goin to spend.

a fully built b16 can also keep up wid a ls still.... any engine built(honda b series) but ls jus have more torque, widout LSD gonna have some traction issues

[LS/V-TEC]

a fully built b16 can also keep up wid a ls still.... any engine built(honda b series) but ls jus have more torque, widout LSD gonna have some traction issues

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