Circuit Cars

[Duct Tape]

Thanks, that makes things a whole lot clearer. Also found this related video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iBbwocYZw&NR=1

Who would have thought that someone would be interested in seeing squirters doing their job on an F1 engine?

[Toda-power クリスの]

 
Nice pic guys.keep em coming

[Toda-power クリスの]

that mazda 787b is a true classic race car.ROTARY POWER!!!!!!

[Toda-power クリスの]

check these out

[Toda-power クリスの]

hey captain i kno ud love 2have one a these to test out ur evo on cuz we kno u doing alot a maths for ur aero design     

 

[marck_c]

Sure, they only run about US$20 million or so.

[Toda-power クリスの]

20 mil?WOOOOOw thats alot of money

[3star2nr]

20 mil?WOOOOOw thats alot of money

thats not including the price to actually run it.

[Toda-power クリスの]

20 mil?WOOOOOw thats alot of money

thats not including the price to actually run it.

 

[Toda-power クリスの]

watu guys think about this interior


carbon fiber

[3star2nr]

mazda FTW!!!!

[Toda-power クリスの]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

[3star2nr]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes boss

[Armchair racer]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

[Toda-power クリスの]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

  whats that about?

[Grim Reaper]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

mi lost too......

  whats that about?

[3star2nr]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

  whats that about?

Goat was the knick name for the pontiac GTO. I drive a 3000GT which is called a GTO in japan.

[Druggz Boss @ Druggz-Lab Inc.]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

  whats that about?

How you so touches with regards to goats ?

[Armchair racer]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

  whats that about?

Goat was the knick name for the pontiac GTO. I drive a 3000GT which is called a GTO in japan.

that's not it! 

it has to do with this story!

http://www.wheelsjamaicahost.com/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=106547.0

" Everybody knows that goats love Mazdas! "

[Toda-power クリスの]

       

[benchracer]

Subscribe...another great technical thread in the making!

[Grim Reaper]

mazda FTW!!!!

Your a big fan of mazdas?

yes, him and the goats! 

  whats that about?

Goat was the knick name for the pontiac GTO. I drive a 3000GT which is called a GTO in japan.

that's not it! 

it has to do with this story!

http://www.wheelsjamaicahost.com/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=106547.0

" Everybody knows that goats love Mazdas! "

bwai wheels man dem nuh easy.....

[marck_c]

Name the cars (easy). Name the annotated parts (not so easy)

[3star2nr]

I'll take a swing at this pic



1 Suspension Actuator link mount
2. Damper
3. another damper
4. looks like a endlink for the sway bar.

It difficult to tell without actually seeing the car up close andseeing what everything is connected to

This one is easy



1. Not sure could be a swaybar, or a mount of some sort.
2. Pushrod actuator link. (its basically a triangular peice used in pushrod style suspensions that transmit the forces from the lower A arms, to the shoc absorber.
3. Shock absorber.

This car uses the new trend im seeing in the racing world to use one shock for 2 wheels rather than a seperate shock for each.

The advantage is lighter weight, and also more compactn packaging is possible. Its a brilliatt idea. F1 cars use this same setup

The disadvantage is that you have to design a special damper and get ti right, what you dont want i for the right wheel to be affected by what the left wheel is doing. you want to keep the suspension independent



This one is hard,

It could be any of the following:

The suspension looks like a 6 bar mechanism rather than the conventional 4 bar or 4 link mechanism



1. The mount for the actuator link
2. The main shock absorber
3. Either a secondary shock absorber
4. I dont know what that is, but its connected to the diff, by a crank rocker I suspect its some sort of motor, to adjust the diff.

OR It could be a connventional 4 bar suspension

1. The mount for actuator link
2. Its definately a damper not sure what its purpose is
3. Shared shock absorber
4. Still dont know

[ringoE30]

4. is the sway bar it seems.
3. could be the main absorber.
2. i dont know where its going

for this one now:



1. is the spring or (torsion bar)
2. could be a link behaving like a sway bar, 

[ringoE30]

i could be wrong on the dampers, but i think the secondary one moves via a linkage that actuate when the main one fully compressed 

[3star2nr]

i could be wrong on the dampers, but i think the secondary one moves via a linkage that actuate when the main one fully compressed 

yeah thats some stuff ive never seen before. I guess this is the new way of doing things.

[marck_c]

for this one now:




1. Torsion Bar   (There are no lateral springs)
2. Dampers    (buried in the transmission)
3. Third Spring   (Used to dampen ride height of the Rear Axle - Aero load)



Car is an Acura ARX-02

[marck_c]

1. Inboard Torsion Bars
2. Primary Dampers (Lateral)
3. Third Damper (Aero)
4. Anti-Roll bar

Car is a Porsche Spyder RS

[3star2nr]

Sweet! I came close!

Its a 6 bar mechanism. I think there was a honda bike that used a simular suspension setup.

Thats pretty interesting stuff.

[gregorybrav4]

moving forward 

[ringoE30]

I wonder how critical the aero dampers are? well it goes to show the attention to detail here. Damping makes sense where there is an oscillation, so dem bredda here a tink bout ever changing down force, not just in slowing down or corners, but to the point as if the air pressure is fluttering. I guess it reduces the influence the wind has on the suspension.

[3star2nr]

I wonder how critical the aero dampers are? well it goes to show the attention to detail here. Damping makes sense where there is an oscillation, so dem bredda here a tink bout ever changing down force, not just in slowing down or corners, but to the point as if the air pressure is fluttering. I guess it reduces the influence the wind has on the suspension.

Ringoe I wouldthink its very important, remember those cars generate alot of downforce, at leafst another 1000-2000 lbs of downforce on the backend. You would have to run a stiffer spring rate to accomodate for this, That would of course mess up the low speed handling of the car.

Im guessing the second set of dampers is there to compensate for the extra downforce at speed.

[marck_c]

I wonder how critical the aero dampers are? well it goes to show the attention to detail here. Damping makes sense where there is an oscillation, so dem bredda here a tink bout ever changing down force, not just in slowing down or corners, but to the point as if the air pressure is fluttering. I guess it reduces the influence the wind has on the suspension.

Ringoe I wouldthink its very important, remember those cars generate alot of downforce, at leafst another 1000-2000 lbs of downforce on the backend. You would have to run a stiffer spring rate to accomodate for this, That would of course mess up the low speed handling of the car.

Im guessing the second set of dampers is there to compensate for the extra downforce at speed.

Correct

[Toda-power クリスの]

car challenge quiz? lol 

[marck_c]

For the VW lovers out there...

[pyro]

Name the cars (easy). Name the annotated parts (not so easy)

Hmm a VERY intricate antiroll bar setup.

When both wheels are in bump/droop, the two angled links just cause the rocker to pivot about it's centre. (no resistance)
But when the car is in roll (one wheel in bump more than the other) ..before the rocker can force the other wheel into bump it has to bend that thin longitudinal bar (arrow).

Car also has torsion bar springs inset into the gearbox housing and vertical dampers on the side (barely visible).




Check out the 787B's variable length sliding intake runners...they get shorter  as the RPM's increase, then you slow for a corner and they lengthen for optimum intake resonance on corner exit(no compromises here). Also it has 3 spark plugs per combustion chamber...production mazda rotaries have 2. First Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans.

[A.Wayne]

Wow great thread , never saw  dis before ....   Great pics guys ..

PYRO:
I was not aware Mazda had a production 4 rotor , i have only seen them in there race cars .. Which model Mazda car came with a 4 rotor ?

On the intake trumpets motion as you suggested , shouldn't it start short for increased  low RPM TQ , going  long for increased midrange TQ,  lowering slightly at the top for extended Tq/Hp ...

Marck:

Great ALMS pics ..Funny to see the return of torsion bars to top flight racing , you expect it from Porsche ( they invented it )  but to see it show up on the Acura cars 2 is telling ... ole time sumting come back again 

[pyro]

PYRO:
I was not aware Mazda had a production 4 rotor , i have only seen them in there race cars .. Which model Mazda car came with a 4 rotor ?

On the intake trumpets motion as you suggested , shouldn't it start short for increased  low RPM TQ , going  long for increased midrange TQ,  lowering slightly at the top for extended Tq/Hp ...

1) I meant production rotaries, didn't specify 4 rotor or 3 etc. Yep afaik no production 4 rotor cars out there...but that would be sick, waiting for the Furai.

2) Intake resonant length (wave tuned length) is inversely proportional to rpm (i.e frequency). Longer lengths will create the desired ramming effect at low rpms, and short lengths will do so at high rpms. Of course it gets more complicated when you consider 1st, 2nd, 3rd order waves....like how a piano has middle C, then another C an octave higher. In any case an intake runner tuned for 1st order resonance between 6000 to 12000rpm needs only to have a couple of inches of adjustability.

[A.Wayne]

Pyro,

Agree on the resonant tuning theory , Longer trumpet length has a resonance frequency with a longer wavelength than the shorter trumpets.....

from practical experience , short runner lengths maximizes the T/q earlier then by increasing runner length  you  are able to keep the TQ   until at higher revs +11000 you have to shorten again  (very slightly ) to maintain ...Of course max rpm , bore/stroke ratios affect the optimum resonant length ...some engines ( Ferrari 360/Porsche 996 for eg. ) reduce earlier because they only rev to 9000..


Ohhh trumpet Bore is also important here you will move a 52 mm differently than say a 32 mm ..

[Duct Tape]

This is one amazing compilation of technology.

[marck_c]

More 4 rotor pics...







The cars it came in...

[marck_c]

[logic]

Nice pics!

[pyro]

In the last RX-792 photo: some of the fender louvers have a makeshift cowl over them. Why is that? To reduce water spray in the rain?

That R26B motor is definitely a tight package, 72degree V10 would've been taller. The bracing suggests that the engine is not a structural member. The airbox is massive for a motor displacing 2.6L.

Also there's a chick in one of those pics just in case no one noticed

[A.Wayne]

2.6L ...  ..


Who let the dogs out ..woof ,woof ,woof  

 who let the dogs out , woof ,woof ,woof  


  ........

[Duct Tape]

Is the throttle electronically actuated or is it a regular gas cable type?
I see what looks like actuators (with the blue tags with some increment markings on them) just under the circular looking throttle control where the normal gas cable seems to be connected.
That variable length ram pipe/velocity stack is pure genius. 

[pyro]

F1 cars cornering in slow motion...you can even see the tires slip and deflect http://videos.streetfire.net/video/F1-in-SloMo_695288.htm

Yes Wayne ... a mere 2.6L, I don't think those prototype cars (787b&792P) ran intake restrictors either.

Interesting duct tape..I thought those were just throttle position sensors, but they're actually too large for that, so it prob. is fly by wire throttle. Check out the Yamaha YCCI system used on the more recent R1's and maybe R6. It's much simpler but only gives two discrete runner lengths. I've never seen a dual/variable length exhaust runner...that might actually be more advantageous than the variable intake.

EDIT: Actually I think those dc motors on top of the engine are actually controlling the telescopic intake via cables.

[A.Wayne]

Pyro ,
  We have fought  dat one  here before ,  the FIA agrees with me on the displacement issue , so i guess i can live with that  

The actuators were for the variable trumpets , i don't   re-call that car having  electronic throttle ....



 

[marck_c]

The actuator pictured on the R26B engines are electrical motors which drive the cables that extend or retract the throttle trumpets. The engine was not drive by wire. The velocity stack lengths were positioned by the ECU dependent on RPM.